November 16, 2008

Coming Out - Of My Foxhole, That Is

In which we shall see: A very long post that carefully rants and raves, the possible destruction of a goodly part of my Facebook friends list, and a hope for something more than what we're getting. (I'm a little nervous, but I'll say it anyway. Gulp.)

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For the last couple of weeks I have had the overwhelming urge to duck and cover. I've never experienced this before in the wake of an election, and I hoped that if I ignored it the feeling would go away. It hasn't. I decided then that the indication was that instead I should "stand up and be counted", and that is my intention here.

In the fallout from the passage of Proposition 8 I have been reading and researching voraciously, and I am astounded at the amount and the level of discussion that has promulgated. (I've been reading posts from lots of very smart people, which is what leads me to the usage of words like "promulgated." Sorry. It will probably happen again.) Currently, my overwhelming urge is to send the entire "gay rights" movement over to stand in a corner until they regain control of themselves. This is probably a condescending response on my part, and I do understand that very real feelings and motivations are involved in what is turning out to be a fairly massive issue. HOWEVER - This is a republic. We are governed by democratic principles. We hold an election, we vote on issues, and majority rules. THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS. If you don't get what you want from an election, you have several options: one is to continue to participate in the system until the changes you hope for occur, another involves moving to Europe. It is not all right to throw yourself down on the floor, beat your arms and legs, break your toys, and scream at the top of your lungs, all in the hopes that things will turn out the way you wish because you are louder than everyone else.

Listen - the majority of definitions I've found describe "marriage" as a "contract between an man and a woman" etc... "Civil union" is defined as a "contract between two members of the same sex in which both parties have the same benefits, protections, and responsibilities as spouses in a marriage." So, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? Groups are shouting that their "rights" are being restricted - I say, where do you get the idea that marriage is a right? Are you saying that everyone is entitled to be married, and to have that union recognized not only by the parties involved but by the government and every other individual living in the country as well? My goodness, but some people are feeling awfully self-involved lately! I'm not married, and have never been married - whom should I sue? Whom should I picket and protest? "Marriage" is not guaranteed by any governmental document, and is not listed with any group of rights to which the people of this nation are guaranteed. If anything, marriage is the domain of religion, and only secondarily recommended to governmental purview because it is a long-accepted societal unit and recognized as beneficial to the growth and well-being of the nation. The same cannot be said of same-sex relationships, though in general those relationships are not opposed or restricted by the civil government.

So let me ask - why the extreme desire to be "married"? If you don't believe in God, it doesn't make much sense to argue for a situation designed and originated by God. If you do believe in God, it doesn't make much sense to fight for your "right" to something He has rejected. It appears to me that you are seeking the label of "marriage" so as to be validated in your lifestyle by those around you, not because the word or institution itself actually means that much (see RE: religion, God). Here's the thing - I don't care to validate your lifestyle, anymore than I am concerned with having you validate mine. I will work, laugh, study, play, converse, and cry with you, but I am not interested in having your bedroom activities shoved in my face. Boundaries - look into them, please.

In for a penny, in for a pound - It is my personal belief that homosexuality is a choice. Sexuality as a behavior of any kind is a choice. Urges, inclinations, attractions, etc... may indeed be hormonal, chemical, even genetic - but actions based on those feelings occur by choice. The person you sleep with (or don't) is a matter of decision, not fate or coercion. A person may very well be homosexual by "wiring", if you will, but they are under no compulsion to participate in homosexuality except by conscious decision. I know that this is a simplistic perspective. I also know that we are more than animals being led around by our instincts. The fact that I am a 34-year-old virgin is a matter of choice... believe me, I have had opportunities to alter that status. For various reasons (which are, quite frankly, none of your business) I have not. This doesn't make me better or holier or smarter (well, OK, maybe a little smarter than some) than anyone else, it just means that I have made particular decisions regarding my own sexuality, and I do not need those decisions to be regulated by anyone else.

Did the "gay rights" group really expect the religious sector to suddenly roll over and hide in regards to a principle they have ALWAYS opposed, just because the movement was/is noisy and yells things like "repression", "discrimination", and "hate"? Haven't they been paying any attention to the last 2000 years? Let me repeat - "Marriage" is an institution that has always stood as a union between a man and a womon. There are biological, religious, emotional, philosophical, sociological, and ecological reasons this has always been the case. WE DO NOT KNOW THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS of homosexual relationships on society at large, mainly because every civilization that sanctioned homosexuality has been destroyed. We have no precedence, no prior examples to look at. It should come as no surprise that society at large is extremely leery of making such a huge shift in traditional, tested, accepted morays in favor of something that cannot be judged accurately, but that has looming potential disadvantages to the well-being of future generations and the stability of that societal foundation.

Finally, a word to those who sneer at the "brainwashed sheep" that make up religious congregations - I am opinionated, lucid, occasionally eloquent, educated, and inclined towards study and research. My choice to follow the direction of one I revere as a prophet is just that - my choice. I am not being led around by the nose, and I reject out of hand the assumption that I will do whatever I am told, just because the church says so. How foolish to suppose that just because I support and believe something you do not, I am stupid and robotic. I do not assign such a role to anyone who does not believe the same thing I do, and I would ask for similar courtesy.

Polarizing the issue further by demonizing anyone on either side of the divide is not productive or beneficial. Stop it, all of you/us - grow up, take a deep breath, go wash your hands and face, and come back to the table ready to sit up straight and discuss things like adults. Temper tantrums will not help. Name-calling (from either side) will not help. I may not condone what you do, but I respect your right to choose to do it. I expect that same perspective from you.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

You have brilliantly stated your point (and something I have been thinking A LOT about.) Thank you.

Matt said...

Oh goodie, some more things we can disagree on! There's only so much that can be said about Twilight.

I won't go in to everything because books could be (have been) written about the subject. Briefly, though:

(1)The fact that a majority voted one way does not make it right. People are easily led by demagogues and propaganda, among other things.

(2) One way people "continue to participate in the system" is by taking advantage of their right to free speech (e.g., protesting).

(3) It is not all right to throw yourself down on the floor, beat your arms and legs, break your toys, and scream at the top of your lungs, all in the hopes that things will turn out the way you wish because you are louder than everyone else.

Jeez, simplistic a little? Hyperbolic a tad? A teeny bit inflammatory?

(4)the majority of definitions I've found describe "marriage" as a "contract between an man and a woman" etc...

Just because it is or has been does not mean it should be.

(5)I'm not married, and have never been married - whom should I sue?

If I didn't love you, I would rhetorically tear you apart for/with this. Repeat after me: I will not use false analogies. Props for the correct usage of "whom," though.

(6)Marriage is the domain of religion.

Yes. The government shouldn't be involved at all, even secondarily.

And so on. I see a little bit of merit in some of your arguments, but the vehemence and such drowns it.

PS, I went to a modern dance show last night. I thought about the Lost Boys number and the one with the witches. So awesome.

Ringleader said...

(3) Protests don't change laws. They might raise awareness, change (or cement) people's minds, gain notice, etc. But in our system of government it comes down to changing laws legislatively. It is anyone's right to jump up and down, lay down, stand up, sit down, yell, vow silence, whatever. But I think those are not generally thought of as reasonable or convincing "arguments."

(4) Just because someone doesn't like the definition of a word doesn't mean it should be changed for everyone else. Marriage is what it's always been. Some other agreement or arrangement just doesn't fit the definition, and therefore is given another title.

(5) I agree with Charisse's premise. How is her question different than what the anti-P8 crowd are saying?

Alaskans get dividend payments from sale of their natural resources each year. Why should THEY get dividend payments and I don't? Oh, wait - I don't live in Alaska. I'm not entitled to the benefit they get because I don't meet the definition of "Alaskan." If I really want that benefit then I have the CHOICE to move to Alaska and also get that benefit.

(6) Doesn't your argument here go against everything you just posted? If governments shouldn't be involved in marriage at all, then why bother protesting? Why the need for elections over these subjects? Why can anyone complain to a state court that they don't get the benefits of marriage, if the state isn't or shouldn't be involved?

The truth is our government IS involved, and by allowing protests / discussions / litigation / etc the government will CONTINUE to be involved. This is related to (3).

Matt said...

Cyd already knows my stunning debate skills. Since I don't feel the need to show off . . . here . . . and I wouldn't feel right turning her blog into a war zone, I don't think I'm going to respond to Mr. Ringleader.

I love you Cyd! Let's play soon.

Charisse Baxter said...

I'm thinking I probably shouldn't have posted about this right as I start PMSing, but I do feel better finally getting it out...

Matt:
1 - The fact that a majority voted one way does not make it wrong, either. The fact that a minority is feeling "repressed" or "discriminated" against does not make them right. Such a claim should absolutely be investigated, discussed, negotiated and alleviated, if possible. That's what the system is FOR.

2 - And I don't have any problems with the protests. I have issues with the blacklists, the destruction of property and reputations, the intimidation and violent reprisals. This is not acceptable or productive behavior from ANYONE, no matter which side they're on.

3 - Sure, it's all of those things. I still feel like it fits, though.

4 - Depends on your perspective. Some things stick around for very good reasons.

5 - Explain it to me, then. My point was that marriage is not a "right", not that the position of a single woman (for whatever reason)is exactly comparable to a homosexual couple. It was intended as a limited example only.


It's no fun if you can't be vehement about it! There are plenty of other people out there taking scholarly, scientific approaches to the issue, and I didn't feel like that was the angle I wanted to try for. Since when are feelings and impressions all that scientific, anyway?

Thanks for the restraint, and I appreciate not becoming a war zone (there are enough of those elsewhere) but don't feel you need to close up shop entirely... One of my major points was that reasoned discussion seems to be one of the things missing from this whole situation!

P.S. That's the best when those kinds of art stick with you and are called up later. Awesome, indeed.



Ringleader: Good stuff, bro. Thanks.

Rebecca said...

Well stated! I think most of the LDS world is very frustrated by the targeting and tantrums directed at them. We had to face a rather uncomfortable "family" situation that had to do with this and thankfully it has been resolved mostly, but my goodness it's not fun! Thanks for you words of wisdom!

Ringleader said...

Mr. Matt,

I haven't seen your skills in action; I have no choice but to take you at your word. Charisse can more than hold her own in whatever other conversations you must be having away from this forum.

I will say that if you're a friend of my sister, you must be OK overall!

Anonymous said...

I say HAZAAH!!!! A more beautifully executed statement, I have yet to see. I add my one stick to the fire. . . Does anyone realize that the LDS church is NOT the only church to feel the need to weigh in on the issue? I don't see people desecrating Catholic churches - And PLEASE don't start!!!

Shanna said...

This is why I love you Charisse, how incredibly eloquent! I wish more of us could express our thoughts so well.